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Cheapest Buildable Wood and veneer?
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Author:  turbo411 [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:07 am ]
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This is a two part question. As we all know practice makes perfect (better). What is the cheapest wood you could use to go through the experience of making a guitar (sound is not a factor)?

Now let's say that it turned out so well that you decide to veneer it with a good tone wood. Would adding a layer or two of veneer improve the sound?

Thanks!
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:12 am ]
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any hard or soft wood that is free. think taylor's pallet guitar.

no. probably be markedly worse!!!crazymanmichael39071.6448842593
Author:  D Stewart [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:21 am ]
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I agree with Michael, any hardwood that you can scavange and cut up yourself can be used and can sound pretty good if the construction is good. Laminating layers afterward would probably ruin any previous good effort.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:34 am ]
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The cheapest sets I've got have to be Khaya. Like 10 dollars for a set from some of the Spanish suppliers. Doubt it's worth the time and wear and tear on tools, sandpaper, etc. to resaw yourself at that point...
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:46 am ]
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Here is my thoughts on what you are asking.

Question #1. What is the cheapest wood you could use to go through the experience of making a guitar?

I would use 2A Mhogany you are not likly to find a better tonewood for the money or easer to work with.

Question #2. Now let's say that it turned out so well that you decide to veneer it with a good tone wood. Would adding a layer or two of veneer improve the sound?

I would assueme there would be some dampening.
Author:  j.Brown [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:05 am ]
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You can pick up lower end tonewood under $20 that will sound great if thicknessed and braced properly. I just picked up a great set of very nice stiff WRC for $16.
How much cheaper do you want to go?
Might as well give yourself the best chance you can on the first try so you won't always wonder how good it COULD have sounded if you just spent an extra $5.
-j.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:24 am ]
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One thing that I think when I see this question asked (it does get asked a fair amount) is this,

What is the factor which is causing you to ask this question?

Is it a lack of funds? Not wanting to mess with "good quality" woods on the first? The wife doesn't want me to spend anything on something that may not sound good

Well, in response to these questions are:

Building a guitar is not a cheap or inexpensive decision. It will most likely cost you as much or more than a nice high end factory built guitar ($1,500-2,000) and the wood is usually not the biggest factor.

Using poor quality woods will not help in giving your best effort. If and when there is a mistake or potential for mistake, the inadvertent message in your head will be "It's only cheap wood, I don't have to worry bout "that" so much". Why not use good wood and than you will tend to think "I really have to be careful with this step, don't want to wreck this nice wood".

And the third, as Andy always says, "the woman is always right" so can't help you there.

If you call around to some of the sponsors, I bet you can get some lower grade woods which are still very nice indeed for under $60 and than you have brace wood, neck material and some pieces for the fb, bridge and head plate. Some of the stuff may even be salvageable from the off cuts depending on the size guitar you make.

Really, you don't have to spend more than $300-400 for the materials for your first, but than there are the tools
Author:  martinedwards [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:11 am ]
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use a decent top and save on the back & sides. lower grade tops are often lower grede because of COLOUR and nothing else.

I'm finishing a guitar shaped bouzouki at the minute.

Walnut Back sides & bridge, & mahogany neck were all salvaged from a dumpster.

total cost when finished?

under $100 unless I put in a pup.....

Author:  Lillian F-W [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:09 am ]
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[QUOTE=Rod True] <snipe>

Using poor quality woods will not help in giving your best effort. If and when there is a mistake or potential for mistake, the inadvertent message in your head will be "It's only cheap wood, I don't have to worry bout "that" so much". Why not use good wood and than you will tend to think "I really have to be careful with this step, don't want to wreck this nice wood".

<snipe> [/QUOTE]

There was a discussion a couple of years back on another forum about newbies and their trials and tribulations. The attitude that Rod described was acknowledged time and time again as to what their biggest mistake was, their attitude towards their materials. Because they viewed the wood as cheap and for practice, people found themselves spending more in the long run to replace the sides or back or neck that they just ruined because they didn't take their time or think a process through and now had to buy a replacement.

Look for the most inexpensive materials you can find, but treat them as if they are something special, which they are. They are going to be your first.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:00 pm ]
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Rod-
Lots of good points there.
[QUOTE=Rod True]
Using poor quality woods will not help in giving your best effort. If and when there is a mistake or potential for mistake, the inadvertent message in your head will be "It's only cheap wood, I don't have to worry bout "that" so much". Why not use good wood and than you will tend to think "I really have to be careful with this step, don't want to wreck this nice wood".
[/QUOTE]
This really depends on the personality involved, no?
The opposite extreme is fairly common as well:
"This is going to be a first-class guitar with everything just so; I'm using excellent materials; I need to build a small factory of jigs and tools to do each step just right." Result: virtual paralysis, rather than a simple, modest , hand-built (quaint concept?) first guitar underway.

So, the questioner really needs to examine the reason for asking, as you suggested.
John
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:53 pm ]
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[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie] The opposite extreme is fairly common as well:
"This is going to be a first-class guitar with everything just so; I'm using excellent materials; I need to build a small factory of jigs and tools to do each step just right." Result: virtual paralysis, rather than a simple, modest , hand-built (quaint concept?) first guitar underway.

[/QUOTE]

I guess the first part of your statement is true John, but like it's said, "Pride comes before a fall"

Too true about the virtual paralysis once the overwhelming reality of this craft sets in (on the first especially) There can be lots to build before you start "the build" (just for you Howard )
Author:  turbo411 [ Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:41 am ]
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Thanks all for the redponses. Initially I asked the question because I've undertaken numerous projects where after finishing the project I felt the next attempt would be much better based on what I learned on the first attempt. Having said that I thought it might make sense to use "practice" material. But cerainly there have been some good points to use quality materials. Something to think about.

Ps matrinedwards, that's amazing what you've done with scrap wood
Author:  af_one [ Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:59 am ]
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Hers my suggestion--call John at Blues Creek(sponsor), I'll bet he could put an inexpensive kit together for you--he's got beautiful stuff, but maybe some orphaned sides and a neck with some minor spots to fill. You get the picture. I doubt you could put somthing together for less than he can and get the same quality?
Just a suggestion.
Author:  letseatpaste [ Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:06 am ]
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I think John's statement about jig paralysis is right on. At the same time, I think "sound is not a factor" might be a mistake. There's a balance to strike.

I think the best tac for a beginner to take is to get an initial stash of inexpensive but traditional tonewood. i.e. Opportunity Grade Rosewood from Allied, or 2A mahogany, 2A sitka, etc... Funny thing, too, when I show people my shop and the opportunity grade EIR parlor I'm building, I've had several people ooh and ahh about how pretty the wood is.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:17 am ]
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I think Jon is right on the mark with his comment on wood selection above. I also agree that the 'sound is not an issue' is definitely a mistake.

There's no reason why a first guitar made from inexpensive (but near quartered, tonewood-quality) woods shouldn't sound good (or better, with luck). It's been mentioned elsewhere that Strad and Torres and others often used woods that wouldn't pass the AAA cosmetic criterion, if that.... wide grain, some color, etc. There's not much relationship between wood appearance and sound quality.

I've had good luck contacting wood suppliers with specific requests for keeping the expense down by accepting some cosmetic 'downgrade' wood. You can get good wood so cheaply this way that it really doesn't make much sense resawing your own unless you want to pile up a big stash of wood.
It's also useful to think about keeping the binding/purfling and other decoration reasonably simple, as that can push the cost up quite a bit (once you break a few $8 sticks..!).
John
Author:  Shawn [ Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:49 am ]
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One of the first guitars that I built back in the 1970's was made from the cheapest woods I could buy as I was that poor.

The neck was from a patternmaking form that was being thrown out. I was a patternmakers apprentice and most of our forms were honduras mahogany and the form that was being thrown out was 12/4 clear mahogany.

For the top I was given a piece of Sitka Spruce that was a cuttoff from a boatmaker that built wooden boats as Sitka is a really good wood for spars.

The sides and back came from spalted maple from a crate that had shipped machinery. The wood was flatsawn and non-figured but the spalting pattern was nice.

For the fingerboard and bridge I used Brazilian Rosewood scraps. At that time in the 70's almost every knifemaker used brazilian rosewood for knife handles so wood importers would bring in logs whole (called boules) and would cut them to dimensional sizes just prior to drying.

The BRW I got were the offcuts of the logs that were slabbed but were plenty big for parts. At that time alot of that scrap would just be burned to heat the steam chambers for the kiln. Because they saw I was a struggling woodworker, I got a pickup truck full of BRW and Ebony scraps for $20!! At that time LMI had just bought out Bill Lewis (where the A-AA-AAA wood ratings started) and were getting BRW from Huttig. In their first pricelist BRW sets were selling for $75.00
Author:  crowduck [ Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:09 am ]
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The top/soundboard is the most important, and Shane's lower grade Lutz (A) tops are only $12, and his WRC (A) is $11. If you email him he might have some orphaned or mismatched stuff he'd sell for cheap.
On another thread I read that LMI has a bin and some shelves just inside the customer entrance stocked with mismatched, orphaned, or discards that can be had for very little $$. Maybe give them a phone call.
Allied's oppurtunity grade EIR gets good reviews(already mentioned).
Awhile back, at my local building supply yard, I was looking at some sheets of walnut or mahogany ply. I think it's used for paneling, and is about 1/8" thick in 4'X8' sheets for less than $20 per sheet. I was thinking about trying that for B&S, but am concerned about side bending.
Author:  Sam Price [ Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:20 am ]
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[quote]The sides and back came from spalted maple from a crate that had shipped machinery. The wood was flatsawn and non-figured but the spalting pattern was nice. [/quote]

I cannot get my head round this...spalted maple as a shipping crate???????
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:11 am ]
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My Dad gave me some 4x4 billets that Goodyear used for something or another. They turned out to be maple. Since they had been sitting outside for a while, they had begun to spault. They were beautiful. Turned them for legs and used walnut for the seat of a stool. Since it was the first thing I had ever done, it wasn't as structually sound as it should have been, but it was beautiful.

I raided a local custom stone countertop company's trash pile. Their stone comes from all over, including Brazil. Don't know what the wood is that they crate the stone in, but its a tropical hardwood that will show up one day as a guitar neck.
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